Minutes of an Ordinary Meeting of the Council held at Ysgol Llanfair on Monday 2 October 2017 at 7 pm.

 PRESENT –  Councillors David Baker, Bob Barton [present for Part 2 only], Moira Edwards,  Jayne Mayers [Vice-Chair], Keith Moulsdale and Eirwen Godden, Clerk.

IN ATTENDANCE –  Nine members of the public.

APOLOGIES – Councillors Wini Davies, John Pugh [on holiday], Tim Faire [illness], Medwen Roberts [on holiday] and Paul Weston [illness]


Councillor Jayne Mayers [Vice-Chair] took the Chair for the meeting due to the absence of Councillor John Pugh.


Councillor David Baker with regard to his involvement with the Church of St Cynfarch and St Mary, Llanfair D C and Councillor Keith Moulsdale with regard to Neuadd Eleanor.


362.1  Mains Gas

Grwp Cynefin has confirmed that the housing association is supportive of the venture and is considering options for installing new central heating at Tai Elisabeth Owen properties.

Pure has also confirmed but has two concerns.  Firstly, about the timing of the mains installation into the village.  The developer expects to commence works on the site infrastructure in early spring 2018.  Secondly, the costs of the mains gas installation and connection fees would have to be comparable with that of an LPG installation.  No reply from Denbighshire County Council to date.

Councillor Moira Edwards reported that residents had been very responsive to the proposal/survey.  Of the 141 houses to be contacted [within the map area of the proposed gas line], 99 homes have signed up so far.  There are 69 other ‘properties’ which include the Church in Wales, the village hall, the White Horse public house and the new development of 63 houses.  This is a total of 169.  Parc y Llan is the last area to be completed.  Wales and West Utilities is adamant about which properties can be covered using Option 2.  Properties beyond the existing school on the A525 or beyond the bottom of Bro Gynan will not be included.  This route does not extend beyond the top of the village leading down to Eyarth crossroads either.  Option 3 to bring gas up from Ruthin would have included some properties at the Eyarth side of the village but would add £300,000 to the Option 2 estimate of £500,000.  A request was made for a map showing the two routes side by side.  Expressions of interest numbers will be submitted to Wales and West Utilities at the end of October with a request to provide a further quote.  Members expressed the hope that the costs may be reduced  due to the higher numbers interested.

 362.2  Defibrillators

Councillor Jayne Mayers gave an overview of the present situation with regard to installation at different sites across the Community Council area.  She emphasised the need for Coleg Cambria Llysfasi to move their equipment outside their building; there should be a defibrillator in the three main villages of Pentrecelyn, Graigfechan but the one  in Llanfair is now in place.  Councillor Paul Weston has obtained quotations for bilingual signs.  A training event on cardiac services is planned for 18 November at the Three Pigeons Inn when people will be invited to make donations and to take part in a raffle to raise money.  Consideration has, in the meantime, been given to different ways of raising funding to pay for equipment/facilities across the area – such as a small lottery or a ‘100’ club but arrangements for collecting monies, how the money would be distributed and spent need careful planning.  The Community Council would also be required to register with the local authority.   Councillor Mayers invited people’s views.  It was suggested that the Council should have a five year plan to include provision for raising money through the precept process.

 362.3  Community Plan

Submitted – Notes of a meeting of the steering group [Steve Whipp, Richard Cotter, Phil Bennett Lloyd and Phil Webb] held on 13 September 2017.  Action points from the meeting were:

[a]  the group to develop a better demographic understanding of the population using available data from DCC, Government as well as websites

[b]  to develop by use of email between group members a series of questions to be included in the Neuadd Eleanor survey

[c]  to approach DCC to understand what plans may have been made for use of the current Llanfair D C school, once the new school has been built.

The group is considering the establishment of a hub to include the use of the village hall, the church, vestry house and the school building after relocation.  The village hall management committee has obtained funding from Cadwyn Clwyd to carry out a feasibility study.  It was noted that status of the group required clarification.  It is not presently a sub-committee of the Community Council.

RESOLVED that Mr Steve Whipp and steering group members be thanked for the work undertaken to date.

 362.4  Broadband

Submitted – Email dated 11 September 2017 from Liz Grieve, Head of Customers, Communications & Marketing, DCC.  The County Council has been working with BT with regard to their fibreoptic rollout and to establish exactly which areas will be covered by the end of this calendar year.  This has proved difficult and contact has been made with the Minister at Welsh Government to this effect.  The County Council is hesitant to push forward with local arrangements as it may be that some/many areas will, in fact, be covered without the need for special arrangements.  Cadwyn Clwyd is, in the meantime, looking to develop some bespoke arrangements in a very small number of households and more details are expected in the autumn.

 RESOLVED that the contents of the email be noted and that BT and Openreach are now two separate companies.  It was also noted that Graigfechan and Pentrecelyn do have a superfast fibre service, but it could be some time before Llanfair area’s needs are addressed.

It was also RESOLVED that a letter be sent to the Leader of Denbighshire County Council about Councillor Bob Barton’s request for Llanfair residents to be invited to attend the meeting  which County Councillor Martyn Holland is hoping to arrange with the Minister.

362.5  Youth Representatives

RESOLVED that the Clerk writes to Ysgol Brynhyfryd, Ruthin School, Coleg Cambria Llysfasi and Clwyd YFC to extend an open invitation for young people to attend Community Council meetings being an opportunity to get involved in local community activities.

 362.6  Plans for the Old School Building after the School is Relocated

Submitted – Letter drafted by the community plan steering group for the Community Council to send to DCC to establish any plans that may already have been made.

RESOLVED that the Clerk writes to Denbighshire County Council and the Church in Wales on the matter.


RESOLVED  The Minutes of the meeting held on 4 September 2017 were approved and signed by the Vice-Chair, subject to adding ‘£250 per bin for additional waste bins’ under minute reference 356.1.


Date/Ref Action By Whom Status


Eyarth Bridge Clerk Weight restriction sign is in the wrong position, needs to be further away from the bridge for drivers to see in time.


Traffic Calming Options Graigfechan Clerk & Marc Musgrave Advance speed limit signs still awaiting Welsh Government approval.  Road markings in Graigfechan are poor and need to be made clearer.


Proposed New Ysgol Llanfair D C Clerk Full application awaited


Mains Gas
Post letter to residents on website Clerk Completed
Invitation to Miri Meithrin, Eyarth Station guesthouse & neighbouring farms to join campaign Cllr Moira Edwards In abeyance depending on gas route chosen
351.2 Defibrillators Clerk No defibrillator available at the Genus Centre
351.5 Fundraising – Permitted Lotteries Cllr Paul Weston To find out which Councils in England run small lotteries
351.6 Noise Nuisance Clerk Reported to DCC, awaiting response.  Another reminder to be sent
354.1 Your Community Your  Choice Fund Clerk Further details sent to Councillors
356.1 Overview of Highways & Environmental Services Clerk A list of bins located in the Community Council area requested, awaiting response.  Reminder to be sent
356.2 DCC Integrated Network Map Consultation Clerk Community Plan Group asked to look at and comment on the document
356.3 War Memorial Emergency Repairs Chair/V Chair Authority given to commission services of a builder to refix coping stones
Repair Notice Clerk Completed
Plaque to commemorate those who died in a plane crash Clerk To be addressed
Grant towards cost of final repairs Clerk Ongoing
357.2 Fundraising Cllrs Jayne Mayers, Keith Moulsdale & Paul Weston To form a group to look at fundraising opportunities
358 Councillors’ Email Addresses and use of the Welsh Government hwb platform Clerk Amy Selby, DCC contacted re accounts, response awaited.  Reminder to be sent
359 Clerk’s Salary Costs Clerk Contingency amount added to draft precept budget 2018/19 to cover additional hours


365.1  Local Democracy & Boundary Commission for Wales – Letter dated 12 September 2017 – Invitation to attend a presentation on the Review of the Electoral Arrangements for the County of Denbighshire on 17 October at Ruthin.

RESOLVED  that the Chair and Vice-Chair attend the meeting with the Commission on 17 October.

365.2  One Voice Wales – representation at Area Committee meetings.  It was noted that Councillor Bob Barton already attends meetings in his capacity as an official of the Association.

365.3  DCC Standards Committee – Community/Town Council Representative.  Email dated 2 October 2017 asking whether any member wishes  to apply.  The closing date is Monday 6 September, interviews week on 15 November at the Hwb, Denbigh.  The County Council is also looking for a member to sit on an interview panel and expressions of interest must be received by the third week in October.

RESOLVED that the Clerk re-circulates the email to Members asking for expressions of interest.


366.1  Application 20/2017/0891 – Crown Reduction of 1 no yew tree in the Llanfair D C conservation area – Church of St Cynfarch and St Mary, Llanfair D C

RESOLVED that the application be supported.

366.2  Denbighshire County Council – Call for Potential Gypsy & Traveller Sites

Submitted –  Letter dated 8 September 2017 from Angela Loftus, Strategic Planning & Housing Manager

RESOLVED that the Clerk sends a reply to say that the Community Council has not been able to identify suitable land.

 366.3  Update re Caravan at Erw Fair Llanfair D C

Submitted –  Email dated 22 September 2017 from Adam Turner, Planning and Compliance Officer, DCC,  stating that the new siting of the caravan has resulted in reduced harm to the visual amenity.  He is not of the view that the caravan’s siting has any significantly harmful impact on the residential amenity of a neighbouring property.  No further action will be taken in regard to the alleged breach.

The Clerk reported that a letter had been sent to Mr Paul Mead, Development Manager, to seek clarification on

[a]   where the boundary is for the dwelling. If this caravan is outside the dwelling boundary then is it still contravening the planning law?

[b]  present use.  If as a local resident has stated the owner has a touring caravan on his dwelling then it cannot be said that the ‘static’ is being used for the enjoyment of the dwelling as it is being used as an extension to the dwelling.  Likewise, Adam Turner suggests that this is because the caravan now has the appearance of a chattel which is functionally linked to the dwelling house.  As such will it require planning consent?

[c]  the ‘nuisance’ value to the community where the property is being used to store ‘scrap’,  which old caravans can be classed, and is seen by the community as being a visual nuisance.

RESOLVED to await a response from Mr Paul Mead.


367.1  War Memorial – Update on emergency repairs.  D P Williams, Building Services, carried out work to refix the existing copings onto the War Memorial on 2 October 2017.  The cost will be £380.00 exc VAT.

RESOLVED [a]  Members approved the action taken

[b]  The Clerk was asked to contact [i]  a stonemason in Ruthin about the cost of a plaque to commemorate those who had  died in a local plane crash during the second World War [Mr John Harrop’s request refers] [ii] a relative of Mr Fuller for further information so that his name can be added to the War Memorial.

367.2  Highway Maintenance – A resident complained about the general lack of maintenance and undergrowth on walkways despite attempts to draw the County Council’s attention on the grounds of health and safety.  The Clerk was asked to write to the County Council about the lack of response to residents’ complaints.

367.3  Dog Fouling  RESOLVED that the Clerk obtains signs for posting on lamp posts.

367.4  Traffic Calming Measures

RESOLVED that the Clerk extends an invitation to Mr Ben Wilcox-Jones, Senior Engineer – Road Safety and Sustainable Transportation, to attend a future meeting of the Community Council as guest speaker..

PART 2  RESOLVED that the Press and Public be excluded from the meeting due to the confidential nature of the following items: 


368.1  Financial Statement  Submitted – Summary of Financial Statement for the period   1 April to 30 September 2017.   The Clerk advised that the balance in the bank as at 30 September 2017 was £7420.81 in the Community Account and £1022.67 in the Business Account.  Taking into account payments to be made this left £6726.17 of available funds in the Community Account as at 2 October.  The Clerk drew attention to adjustments that were needed, for example, to take account of finance earmarked for election costs in 2016/17 to be carried forward to 2017/18 – £1600.00.

RESOLVED  that the financial statement be received and adjustments approved

368.2  Payment of Accounts/Invoices  RESOLVED that payments be made as follows:

[a]  £130.14  Sandra WilliamsTranslation Service – Mains Gas Letter and Minutes 05/06/17 [Councillor Bob Barton suggested that consideration be given to asking students to undertake translation work]

[b]  £184.05  Wales Audit Office – Audit of Accounts Fee 2016/17

[c]  £180.45  Clerk’s Expenses Claim 1 July – 30 September 2017

The Clerk reported that she and Councillor Keith Moulsdale had met with Mr Chris Birchall on  11 September 2017 to receive training on the use of and making changes to the Community Council website.  Mr Birchall recommended that a new web host instead of UK2 be sought so that the domain name remains in one place.  The cost of training and the new subscription is likely to be in the region of £170.00.  Members gave the go ahead for action to be taken as necessary.

368.3  Draft Precept for 2018/19  Submitted – Draft Precept for 2018/19.  RESOLVED that Councillors John Pugh, Jayne Mayers and Paul Weston meet with the Clerk to discuss the draft precept and to report back to the next meeting.

 368.4  Training  Members approved

[a]   the Clerk’s attendance on an OVW Finance Course on 26 September held at Coedpoeth and

[b]  Councillor Bob Barton’s attendance on the OVW Finance Course to be held on 7 November.

369  DATES OF FUTURE MEETINGS [All meetings to commence at 7 pm]

6 November [Genus Centre, Llanrhydd], 4 December 2017 [Ysgol Pentrecelyn], 8 January [Genus Centre, Llanrhydd] and 5 March 2018 [Ysgol Llanfair]

There being no further business Councillor Jayne Mayers declared the meeting closed at 9.30 pm.

Jayne Mayers __________________ CHAIR OF THE MEETING ______________DATE

John Pugh _____________________________COUNCIL CHAIR _____________DATE